WeAreTheKey

This is already like the third version of "bailout" we're being forced to accept, and I've heard plenty of arguments for why we "have to do something RIGHT NOW" to save ourselves, by printing out non-existent money and just throwing it all over the place in the hopse that it will get our rusty machinery pumping again...

But the more I think about how much money we're actually talking about, and the fact that we already spent over 1 trillion dollars last year in the theft known as the "banker bailout", and that we're gonna throw 800-something billion more at citizens and businesses in this "stimulus", AND....there's already talk of another, even MORE MASSIVE stimulus-bailout in the works, that I'm sure we'll be told is "absolutely necessary" to save ourselves...

I just don't think I can honestly support ANY of it anymore. The notable lack of any creative, inspired ideas or innovative solutions to our problem is striking. No one, in government or media is talking real, big ideas that are in any way outside 'the box'... All of our economists and brightest brains at the highest levels have come up with the great, creative idea of: "Fire up the money print presses, and slop fake cash everywhere!"
To the bankers! To the auto industry! To uhhh......the bankers again!
Maybe cut some taxes! Woooo!!
Nice futuristic thinking there, people.
What a joke.
What do you say, should we just take our losses, let the failures fail, and start fresh? Or is this really a good idea to pump artificial money into systems that may very well be so far beyond repair that we're just throwing $$ down a black hole?

Its the same type of thing that got us in this situation in the first place.. like when a family has bills piling up they cant pay for.. what do they do.. go get a credit card.. under the impression they will eventually be able to payy it off, and be making more money.. not thinking about the fact that they are spending more money by doing so and falling deeper in the hole..

Around us schools are closing, people are out of jobs, roads are falling apart, police and rescue workers are getting IOU's instead of paychecks, the postoffice is cutting back days/stamps are going up (AGAIN-its small but seriously..again?)

Putting more money into the system is just going to further the destaqbilization of the dollar AND make all those companies that played with other people's money and lost even more money while more schools close, more jobs lost, more people with out the money and resources to survive. Furthering the line between the rich and poor, and potentially making the plan for the Amero, that much more enticing!.. (the last bit is just a thought, im not sure if the reality of the situation would be a) involved with this plan or b) really even seem like a "help" to the situation..)

I say F*** money, it is causing so much pain suffering and chaos.. stress panic worry... and the crazy thing is it is all man made.. the wole thing is a farce.. the world will not come to an end if money is no longer out focal point.. infact.. perhaps people would live more wholesome, fulfilling lives..

besides, we've tried money.. it's not really working, and no one seems to have a way to fix the problem.. so why not try something new.. something radical...

if it doesnt work.. we can try something different..or go back to the same old shite.... whatever..

Yeah, I have the feeling that we are setting ourselves up for a Great Depression-like collapse. Obama is doing the exact same thing that Bush was doing: "We have to act NOW, or we're all doomed!!! Now give me 900 billion dollars so I can give it to rich people." Oh well. We've done our part in being responsible. We can't control the stupid and the corrupt.

Congrats, Mr. President, you've succeeded in passing the most worthless, expensive load of crap ever put down on paper. Thanks for doing exactly the same thing that got us into this mess in the first place (spending money you don't have on something you don't need). America's "MasterCard" is maxxed out!!!


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29179041

And they're calling it a Big Political Victory, even though it hasn't done anything yet, and could very well end up not working at all. If ti fails to revive the economy, I wonder if they'll still see it as a Huge Victory.

Speaking of Maxxed Out.
Here's the movie! (trailer)
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I'm glad you brought that up, Transfixed. This is a BIG deal to a lot of Americans, right now. The credit card companies are raping people right now, just at the worst econimic time. I personally know people that have seen their credit card payments almost double just as they are getting notice of being laid off from work. And when they call to inquire about how they can do such a thing, the representative states, literally, "because we can, go read the fine print".

We have one credit card but, fortunately, haven't kept a balance on it for about the last seven years. And while many people are irresponsible with such things, many others are good people who do what they have to do and try to be responsible and just pay off the things they owe....only to be gouged wide open by these banks. It's sad.

Here is a story:

http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/39397492.html

HEY, the job of a corporation is to make money.
If they didn't do whatever it took to make more money, they wouldn't be a corporation, now would they?
Corporations are the pinnacle of our Capitalist system, alright?
They're like beautiful little carnivorous machines, always hungry, never full! And when they run short on food, they'll eat whatever they can find, even if that's you and your family and your friends and everything you care about.
Like ferocious little wolverines, only really, really, really big!
What, you saying you don't eat meat?!

Are you against Capitalism or something?

Very nice.

Corporate capitalism is not true capitalism, IMO. It is a bastardization of the entire concept. I'm all for someone having a product or service, and selling it for a profit. And if people like it, then you make money, and maybe even get rich. More power to 'em!

It is pro-competition, pro-consumer, and pro-employee. That is capitalism.

What we have in this country is Corporatism, which is an entirely different animal. It is about market shares and dividends, not products and services. It is anti-competition, anti-consumer, and anti-employee.

And FYI- What the banks are doing in called profiteering, it's illegal, and they should be prosecuted.

Yeah it has definitely mutated into corporatism, which is frustratingly difficult for most people to understand it seems. Everyone talks about the virtues and righteousness of 'capitalism', even to the point of believing we should 'spread' it around the world i.e. in Iraq, in Russia, in China etc... but everywhere, this vicous beast of corporatism has taken over and is now the prime driving force of the world's economic systems.
So one would have to wonder, is carnivorous corporatism an inevitable evolution and product of capitalism? Could any modern society with similar structure to ours develop and live with the capitalist system without devolving into the destructive and despressingly mechanistic world of corporate control over their lives?

Why do we allow corporations to possess a legal 'existence' outside of the people who run them? Corporations are legal entities, in much the same way that a person is, and can be fined, taxed, penalized etc., with no direct consequence to the people running the corporation, because the consequences are deflected and 'diffused' by the corporation and the people escape almost all punishment and negative effects caused by the actions of the company. So even if one person in a corp. does something really stupid and causes a massive fine, like for spilling pollutants into a river, he won't have to pay for it, the corporation will.
But that's no big deal when your profits are big enough, and the fines and consequences are small enough. Then you're free to do whatever the hell you want no matter who you're screwing over, because no individuals will ever have to face the consequences....

Now there may be some justification for this setup that I'm sure is compelling. Through the lens of 'the necessity of economic growth' or whatever... But it sure seems like it sets up a dangerous environment of being able to essentially do whatever you want in order to pursue profit, and never worry (too much) abou the possible consequences. The whole attitude and approach is wrong.

If we changed the status of a corporation to being not a "legal entity" like a person, and instead tie a corp's actions to the ceo's and whoever else runs the companies, they would be a lot more cautious and respectful towards the people they're trying to devour.

At least in the theory inside my head.
Maybe I'm wrong.

Oh, I think you're on to something here. Make people accountable for their actions. What a concept!!! But instead, we not only let the heads of these corporations get away legal "mistakes", we let them get away with massive financial "mistakes", by giving them a reward of billions of dollars.

But, alas, I know it's all for my own good. Thank you, Uncle, for taking such good care of me and watching out for my best interests.

And I don't know if corporatism is an inevitable evolution of capitalism. In the modern world it may well be. So, I guess we'll just keep FEEDING THE BIG DOG!