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2012
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Author:  Transfixed [ Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:16 am ]
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Even assuming their lack of scientific knowledge about things such as weather etc... that would have no bearing at all on their potential ability to tap into information about the future. They wouldn't have attained such prophetic knowledge through 'scientific' means anyway, so any knowledge shortcomings in other areas don't bear any relevance to the possible validity of their prophecies. Just pointing that out...
Author:  prasutagus [ Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:40 pm ]
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Oh, we're bringing the heat, now, my man. The 'Prophecy War' is ON! A.K.A. 2012: Death Match! Just like the Mayans did it. Oh, Snap!

Transfixed wrote:
...I would assume that it certainly wasn't some 'magical' attainment of knowledge, so magic is out.
I very much doubt that prophecy is any type of divine knowledge intervention, where god decides he wants to deliver specific future-knowledge to specific people, that seems pretty out of the question...

...The Mayans may have not understood population control very well, but they sure understood astronomy and mathematics pretty damn well. Better than anyone else on earth at that time. Which isn't to say they were necessarily right about their predictions, but.....they were severely advanced and it would be a mistake to assume they didn't know what they were talking about.



Transfixed wrote:
Even assuming their lack of scientific knowledge about things such as weather etc... that would have no bearing at all on their potential ability to tap into information about the future. They wouldn't have attained such prophetic knowledge through 'scientific' means anyway, so any knowledge shortcomings in other areas don't bear any relevance to the possible validity of their prophecies. Just pointing that out...


Sooooooooo...

Predictions NOT from:
God(s)
"magic"
scientific knowledge

Predictions from:
???hallucinogenic drugs???
Or that famous potent Mayan Ale! :beer:
Author:  Transfixed [ Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:36 pm ]
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Haha, bring it, sucka!!!
:rocket:

You know, considering the ridiculous alternatives, and considering how mysterious and amazing the consciousness abilities of the human brain are, and considering how mind-bending actual current theories of how time itself works, I would not be surprised to learn that the human brain is capable of connecting to the flow of time, and yeah, perhaps while under extremes of consciousness, such as some halluicinogenic ale, the back-sweat of peruvian tree frogs, the bark of jungle trees, or intensely deep meditation.

The mind is actually much, much more powerful than our bland day-to-day experiences would lead us to believe. And time, well..... appears to not be what we think it is, to say the least... So imagining two disparate 'pieces' of it to be linked in ways we don't fully understand is more than plausible. Not true, but plausible...

Unless you'd rather accept that it was The Lord....

:Hurk!:
Author:  prasutagus [ Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:35 pm ]
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Oh, yeah, this is all just for argument's sake. We both know the truth is that Mr. Jesus F. Christ appeared to the Mayans and told them that 12/21/2012 was going to be Judgement Day. That much is BLATANTLY obvious... :worship:

As to consciousness, time, prophecy...
I would agree that the workings of our mind and our related consciousness are nowhere near understood, including the links between the mind and space-time, so technically something like this is never impossible. But is seems that taking that stance leaves one open to almost anything. It's therefore plausible that anyone that claims to have forseen anything is plausibly plausible. I, however, would have to question the plausibility of that plausible plausibility. Taking a date off of a ~1200 year old piece of stone calendar, which seems to mark the end/beginning of an astronomical cycle, and attach "prophecy" and invent stuff around it seems like an awfully big stretch to me. In terms of chances of earth shattering changes coming about, I put the chances way, way below that of Y2K, and I had virtually no fear of anything happening then.
Author:  Transfixed [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:44 am ]
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prasutagus wrote:
It's therefore plausible that anyone that claims to have forseen anything is plausibly plausible......



Yes, it is therefore plausible. The Mayans would not have been 'special' in that regard. I just couldn't discredit them for any particular reason. What makes it somewhat unusual is that it isn't the prophecy of one man, like Nostradamus, or some Biblical person, but of an entire culture/race. It is the prophecy of the Mayans, which is why I think it stands out from others. Plus the fact that they seemed to have been so ancient and 'unsophisticated' compared to modern man, and yet seemed to have an unbelievable level of knowledge about things which most people today could never dream of understanding, like advanced building/architecture abilities with massively heavy stones, and incredibly detailed and accurate knowledge of astronomy and earth cycles, which would have required high-level mathematic knowledge. It's very impressive, which lends more "credibility" to them in wondering what other areas they may have had mysteriously advanced knowledge in.
That's my take on why people may take them somewhat seriously...

What I find more likely is that since thier prophecy is so relatively well known these days, it is essentially planting a subconscious seed in the world that we are building towards a change that will be relevant and important. The fascinating part is that even if the prohpecy is total B.S.....it could still come true, simply by leading us to believe it will happen, it could become self-fulfilling, and we may unwittingly 'cause' or 'allow' it to happen by virtue of our own expectations about ourselves.
That's really my hope. Like I said, I honestly don't care about the 'prophecy' part of it, I care about what we decide to do with ourselves.

prasutagus wrote:
In terms of chances of earth shattering changes coming about.....


Earth-shattering? C'mon, I don't think anyone really expects something as hyped-up and exaggerated as that. Unless of course Mr. Jesus W. Christ Jr. III does decide to saunter his way back to earth and throw a surprise party for us all!! Yeah!! That would shatter Heaven!!! W000000T!!!
Author:  prasutagus [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:56 pm ]
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Okay, that's a good response. Maybe mankind is heading toward "Change We Can Believe In" :wink: . I hope humankind is ever evolving in positive ways.

However, in regards to this specific "prophecy", here's my next question:

What prophecy?????

Okay, so their calendar cycle ends on 12/21/12. But, where's the prophecy attached to that date? It is simply a date. The "prophecies" seem to have been added in later by contemporary people. I don't see the actual ancient Mayans making any sort of future prophecy.
Author:  Transfixed [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:54 am ]
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It's true, there are no specifics involved. It is simply the end of the "long count" calendar for them, and since they bothered to calculate out so far into the future, it is of interest to us, since we've reached that point where their calendar "ends".
People probably think "well why does it end?!" Since it could have gone on for another 5000+ years and on into a '6th' and '7th' age... but it didn't, so therefore the world itself must 'end'.
It's pretty simplistic thinking, but the amount of hype and interest surrounding this date tells us something about our human desire to escape our current state of existence on earth and move on into something more advanced and evolved. We all want so badly to leave behind the ridiculous ratrace of primal compulsions and competitive, greedy instincts, and into something more conscious, loving, and peaceful... but we only admit it in an indirect way by getting all excited over ancient rock calendars and allowing our hopes to come to the surface through the desperate desire to have something 'happen to us'....since we're mostly too damn lazy to bother changing ourselves.
Author:  prasutagus [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:42 am ]
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Yeah, I think there's a lot of truth in what you're saying. Many people are looking for change in the overall functionality of the world, and with little hope of it coming from standard human measures, they look for hope from more 'unorthodox' places, like ancient calendars from extinct civilizations. But, like you said, maybe this type of thing is just another slight nudge toward humanity fullfilling a world changing shift in attitude toward one another.
Author:  Transfixed [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:25 am ]
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Changing the way we perceive each other, interact and treat each other is a much safer bet than sitting on our hands and waiting for :super: to help us out of our hole.
I don't know what, if anything, will happen in the future....I just know that if it's positive, I certainly won't resist it. :wink:
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