WeAreTheKey

What would make you take to the streets in action? What cause do you rally behind enough to try and find appropriate ways of bringing attention to and addressing? Who is your inner activist? Do you have one? What does he/she care about?
Shall we begin a plan to do something together?

Does nothing fire you up? I know that isnt true.. but come on..
what interests you enough to say something publicly about?
I am not exactly saying lets go riot or stage mass rallies I am just curious what you feel a fire about?

my biggest:
Torture & War
I think they are things of a sad dark past that should never be repeated, condoned nor continued. They mar the human races development into our best and draw us further from what is right.
It makes me sick to think that one would find torture acceptable.
I dont see it as a party issue, I dont see it as a faith issue, I see it as a human issue. And the things that make humans so special are lost in the act of toture. Not even animals torture their own. They kill, sure, but they dont "tortue" not like us.

Most of you have already heard my view on war....

What fires me up is the fact that Pelosi and Hoyer don't want to hold hearings to see how far Bush has trashed the country, AND THEY KNOW THE DAMAGE BUSH HAS CAUSED!

Well, as you know, a LOT of things fire me up and make me want to take action, it's just difficult not having very many realistic ways to do so. You can protest, write letters, make phone-calls, hand out information to people on the streets, go subversive/underground to spread information etc... I have a hard time choosing specific things to protest about because I see so many of them as incredibly important...
I have however paticipated in a rally in downtown Portland on the 6th anniversary of 9/11, to help spread awareness of the massive murderous fraud that was commited on the American people and the world on that day. 9/11 was such a pivotal moment in history that changed the course of the whole world, allowed multiple wars to be justified, altered the mentality of millions of gullible people everywhere and served as unlimited political fuel for a certain political party, and I think it therefore deserves the scrutiny and level of importance that I give it. It cannot be another historical event to just let drift into the past, and say "well that was then, this is now, what are we gonna do?"
I think the thing to do is what hundreds of thousands if not millions of other people are doing, which is to refuse to let the issue die, and refuse to let people forget that the perpetrators of the most horrible crime in our lifetime have NOT been brought to justice. And finding Bin Laden won't change that at all.
I'll never forget the level of nausea and sleeplessness I felt when the amount of evidence first became overhwhelming and I realized the truth. I don't want to ever feel that way again, and having the issue repeatedly raised in the public mainstream is the best possible deterrant of something similar ever happening again.
The more people that know, the better.

how can you get people to know? to believe? people don't want to believe, it would be too hard on them. they go "if _______ were true i'd have to evaluate my whole way of thinking and looking at the world!" and then just ignore the evidence.

my father still believes we landed on the moon...

Well, if it were so hard to get people to believe, in say, '9/11 Truth' for example, then how come so many people do?
The movement is fairly massive, and has been forced into the mainstream on many occassions. It consists of not only thousands and thousands of average citizens, but also engineers, physicists, professors, pilots, firefighters, etc etc... And how about JFK's assassination? The majority of the public now believes in a "conspiracy theory" surrounding it. How did they come to believe? By so many people not letting the issue die, by continually pointing out evidence until enough people caught on. If everyone had simply said "Oh there's nothing we can do, no one cares", then guess what, no one would have cared!

The same thing applies to any issue you choose to take up, torture, loss of civil liberties, abandoning of the constitution, global warming, animal rights, gay rights, whatever. If you choose not to shut up, sooner or later people begin to listen and things DO change.

The way that you get people to know is by talking to people. Or like I said above, writing letters, making phone calls, posting signs, creatings DVD's, handing out flyers, making websites (!), posting internet videos, calling radio talk-shows, "freeway-blogging", buying advertising space, on and on and on...

You gotta remember, apathy and cynicism aren't just the results of things being shitty, they're also largely part of the CAUSE.

A lot of people are apparently quite open to "evaluating my whole way of thinking and looking at the world" and choose not to ignore the information or evidence. But it requires other people not giving up so easily.
Cynicism may have its place, but if it's applied to everything, then you've already lost.

As far as the moon landing... that's a pretty tricky subject. There's a lot of evidence that it didn't happen the way the public thought it did, but even the professional skeptics who've written books on the subject like Richard Hoagland believe that we've been to the moon by now, just not in July of 1969.

this is true, there are a lot of people. the fact of the matter is that there are not enough people who believe enough and are willing to do enough.

don't mistake my frustration with people for excessive cynicism. the fact of the matter is that, to use your example, it has taken what- 40 years for the majority of the country to believe that jfk's death was a deeper conspiracy? and for what?

Well, it's true that nothing specifically was ever really 'done' about JFK, but the fact that people awoke to the probability of government involvement made people more skeptical going forward, and look how many people have been skeptical about 9/11? Many people would still love for some sort of justice to be served to the real perpetrators, but EVEN IF it never is, the uprising of people in the huge numbers that have appeared still must make those in power awfully nervous to try something like that again...
For all we know they may have gone ahead and pulled a "9/11 2" if it weren't for the 9/11 Truth movement causing such an uproar and suspicion.
It's ironic that perhaps the best result of spreading such information will be for nothing at all to happen, if you follow my meaning.
It's always worth it to spread what you perceive to be the actual truth, when it comes to something you believe in, and let the chips fall where they may regardless of whether or not you think it might make a difference...
That's how I see it at least. I mean, I'm well aware of how far most people's heads are stuck in the sand, but there's no better feeling than seeing people slowly pull them out and wake up because you cared enough to speak up.

sigworthy. although i'm not sure to what extent i agree with it.

I guess if someone had a gun to your head and would end your life or burn your house down unless you agreed with them, or some such similar circumstance, then sure, you can bend the phrase "always worth it" a bit.... :)
But generally you know, I think it's true. I mean hell, someone's gotta do it, right?

I have a few things on that may not settle well.



This is the same argument heard from any religious group who shows up on your doorstep or calls a religious war on another sect/country or any 'extremist' group or any sociopolitical movement or any other person who attempts to push their personal agenda on others. While you may just mean disseminating the information in hopes of bringing about honest discussion, it's seems like the same argument to me and gets on my nerves more often than not. (I tend to have an aversion to 'belief' [read:dogma] )


I think I follow your meaning and I'm pretty sure it comes out as a shitty deal. So we may have avoided another staged government terrorist attack or some other manipulative force. A good thing IF nothing were happening. but we're still at war, people are dying, and the government still seems to be working toward their intended goal, albeit at a possibly slowed, more covert pace. And it will likely go unreprimanded, like the JFK case. While I see the information surfacing as a good step, it still hasn't done dick to improve the situation. Slowing down a disease only prolongs suffering and still offers no cure.

Hmmm... I must say that's a little disappointing to hear.
First of all, it is somewhat akin to religious people coming to your door, in the sense that they are trying to spread what they believe in, and that's fine. Even if I turn people away or don't feel like talking to them, in my heart I'm glad that they are willing to put themselves on the line like that because they care enough about something.

It is however, in no way parallel to starting religious wars, or "pushing agendas" on others. Speaking out and standing up for something is not pushing an agenda, it is simply speaking out, and people can choose to listen or not, care or not. It does not have to be aggressive, in your face, down your throat, or any other such B.S.

It is, in fact, "disseminating information", and I believe it's information people need to know if they in any way give a shit about our life, future, and direction on this planet. Things like war are about aggression, dominance and control, and aren't in any way what I'm talking about.

"While I see the information surfacing as a good step, it still hasn't done dick to improve the situation. Slowing down a disease only prolongs suffering and still offers no cure."

How is avoiding another staged terror attack, which would probably kill thousands, and which would certainly be the basis for more invasions and wars in which hundreds of thousands more may die "not doing dick"? Sure you can say that our planetary situation is akin to a disease, so would you rather "slow that disease down" until you can find a cure, or just sit on your ass let it kill you as quickly as possible, which I might add would definitely be not doing dick.

Wars will rage, injustices will continue, there is clearly no magical finger-snap that will end all of it immediately, but that doesn't mean that attempting to make things better in any way you can is prolonging suffering.... What would you propose that WOULDN'T prolong suffering I wonder? Total immediate nuclear annihilation? That would end all our suffering faster than anything else.

If you think about it as: Option A is HORRIBLE, and Option B is A LITTLE BETTER, how can one say "Well, I choose Option A, because come on, that stupid Option B is only a little better!" It just doesn't make sense...

I assume that's a gentle reminder/nudge my way??

ok. I must say I disagree with your opinion about missionaries or others coming to your door. on a personal note I find it imposing and annoying, but other than that, having grown up in a baptist environment I suspect that the majority of those coming to your doorstep have less than pure intentions and concern for you personally. While some may, the majority is either mandatory work imposed by the church to spread it's ideals or the pan-cultural pathological concept that if your ideas differ from mine I must convince you otherwise. We may just have to have a disagreement on that issue.

I also said that the arguement you stated is the same used to justify religious wars and such. Not that sticking up for injustices in directly akin to the these atrocities. Admittedly, this was pulling a single sentence of yours out of context and isolating it from the idea as a whole. sorry.


Do you have evidence of this other attack? if you do, i'd be interested in seeing it, if not this seems purely speculative.


Definitely not, and I'm surprised you would think I would consider that an option. How about self-development, people learning to love, to consider people as individuals rather than expendable objects, removing the power from the corporations who place value on human life and than disregard it, therapy to work through personal hatred and self-hatred (manifesting as the prior), instituting life-positive and sustainable technology - such as the work of Bucky Fuller for example, attempting to regenerate the earth rather than continuing to blatantly destroy it at ridiculous rates, removing those in power who perpetuate the death sentence we as a species are on, refusing to participate in the wage-slave economy in place now...ect...ect... all sorts of steps exist, though one panacea of a "cure" seems too simplistic and we just don't seem to be working on the issue with all the tools disposable to us NOW.

my not doing dick comment was to say, it seems none of the above or any significant change is manifesting, and certainly not at a rate that is fast enough to make any real impact on the plans of those currently perpetrating these wars, population manipulations, hatred and such. More significant changes are needed then the government simply needing to detour around plans and come up with other ones. while it may buy very little time and save lives (of course making it "good"), things seem to be going to shit exponentially while change to save it remain pretty linear.

I see.
No, I obviously don't have direct evidence of another attack, but the idea is that by spreading facts and information about a massive fraud, to the point where that knowledge becomes fairly mainstream, it makes it incredibly more difficult to pull off a similar fraud, no matter when they may plan on doing so. It may have averted an attack already, or it may help avert one in the future, but the idea is the same.
Throwing a wrench into the gears of 'evil' to ruin their machines is all we can really do right now. Of course they will simply rebuild another machine that operates a little differently, but you know what, we'll do the same again, and again. Until we can find a more sustainable and positive solution.
Take for instance Monsanto, the corporation whos genetically modified seeds are spreading around the world and putting farmers out of business because once the seed spreads to you crop, they own your crop because they patented the seeds to be resistant to Round-Up. There are two excellent documentaries on the evils of this company which expose their close ties to the EPA and FDA and how their extremely corrupt and unethical practices are helping to destroy the planet. One is called The Future of Food.
The documentaries themselves don't change anything. But knowledge is the most powerful tool we have right now because most Americans are too lazy and comfy to pay attention and give a damn. You have to show them things and make them realize they have an interest in caring about what is happening. You have to change people's minds unfortunately. Or at least attempt to. Not through coercion but through the exposing and dissemination of facts and info. What else can we do to change things?
All of your ideas are great, and I fully agree with them. In fact, most of them are the entire basis of our website. And I think that forcing the powerful elite into abandoning certain terrible ideas certainly fits in with all of the individual growth and development concepts you mentioned.
If we don't alter the behavior of those at the top by standing up for certain principles, they will continue down the path that makes it more and more difficult for things like love, compassion, respect for ourselves, others and the planet to even be possible...

Btw, I didn't assume you were for nuclear annihilation, but I couldn't think of anything else that wouldn't prolong suffering, since things apparently seem to be dancing toward disaster anyway.

In all fairness, the original question here was:
What would make you take to the streets in action?
And the only thing I've ever really done that for was a 9/11 rally...

So if you want to take to the streets for the causes of self-development, or refusing to participate in the wage-slave economy, or learning to love others, that's awesome. I would totally join you. Seriously.
That would blow a lot of people's minds.

Speaking of how citizen activism can work to change things, here's a vid of Arizona state senator Karen Johnson, who, because of a handful of people, brought the 9/11 Truth case to the Senate and openly called for a new independent investigation and handed out dvd's and web-links etc, to the whole Senate.

Pretty interesting to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lgEpaLVjgo

Well, I realized that I hadnt really said what I thought since the evolution of this thread.

I whole heartedly agree with transfixed's quote above. I believe a common reaction to the word spread in this sentance is more of a "take over'' Kind of perception. To spread the word, does nothing but supply the public with more choices. How would that be a problem/ How would spreading what you see to be the truth a bad thing? You arent forcing others to act in a certain manner, arent forcing them to do anything... hell they dont even have to listen to you. The reason I beleive this statemnt is true is, what is the point of gaining the knowledge if you keep it to your self? If you know all the secrets of the universe, wouldn't you wish to share it?Wouldn't you want others to enjoy the experience of knowing? I dont think that knowledge should be kept from anyone, I dont think that percieved truth should just wait to happen simultaneously over everyone. Nothing will be gained from no one doing anything about what thy feel to be true, right just, or injustice, propaganda lies or what outrages them. People need to be more willing to speak, stand, discuss, share, and learn. Less fight, sit, obey.
Dont be greedy with the tidbits of knowledge that you carry dont be lazy about the world we live in. FEEL, TELL, STAND, SPEAK, SHARE. If you do it with your heart and mind in the right place there can be no wrong, on your shoulders. It is up to free will of those who take that knowledge on their part.

on a side note:
Dont always blame the prophet for the followers tyrrany. It isnt always the head that causes the chaos...

Ohh, snap!

j/k

I'm not sure what this refers to...

I think she might be referring to religion. Where the 'followers' may end up being idiots or causing genocides, or doing anything stupid.
Many people end up blaming the religions themselves for the actions of their followers....?

Maybe?

I'm not entirely sure how that fits in with any of our previous statements, buuuut.....

?!